Hi to all this is John Burns the CEO of Joyner. I would like to take the time and clear up this thread. I stay off of your forums do to I feel this is for the consumers, however we do read all that is posted. To clear up and give some facts to the latest EPA and CARB enforcement issues.

One year ago Joyner and many industry leaders negotiated a good deal for the industry inregard to getting a classification for the sand rail industry and ask CARB for time to get compliant. They worked with us for one month and then the new law went infront of the entire Air Resource Board in sacremento were they passed it and also gave us all time to get compliant. Joyner spent over three hundred thousand dollars to complete all the testing and recieved EPA and CARB EO to continue to operate throughout the USA. At no time have we had a conversation with CARB enforcement about anyother company except our own. We also were turned in by a member of this forum and when investigated and all documents went into their office we were left alone. Recently with the issues coming out of China with all the recalls many containers were siezed by US customs and also now China customs and Joyner in China was one of them seven of our container are on hold until China customs inspects all our certifications witch is today. There has been alot of conterfit EPA lable and certificates that were coming into the USA. Joyner does not now who it is but we do care from we did spend a great deal of money to be compliant., Also as far as sand rail fabricators is concerned I would love for someone to say our new ls2 sand runner look like theirs not even close and by the way the sand rail fabricators frame yes I have one and yes I am building it and yes I will drive it and when I am complete with it I will have well over seventy thousand dollars in it. and by the way sand rail fabricators is helping me build it they are even building my roof and dash for me. and they have sold me many parts for it.

as far as the sand show more facts for all to read
I met with industry leaders again at the show and we will all fly together to EPA on Sept 27 to negotiate with them to get a sand rail catagory for the industry and by the way Joyner is leading that charge. along with ASA, ORBA, and ATL. many in the industry respect what I have done for the industry and some do not like it. The ones that do not like it want to keep going on and not get compliant and we at Joyner must run their company and negotiate with the government. Everytime we have made a move to make the industry better we always have talked with Bill Dart of ORBA and also Grant the American Sand associate President.
I also now from an offical at CARB and confirmed by a member of ORBA that the recent enforcement is due to some in the industry not doing what they said they would do over a year ago. As far as Honda I do not now. All I now is that we are being inspected by US customs and passing and now China Customs and passing. YOu can not fault a company for being compliant. And for all to now Joyner had a great show with many of the sand rail companies asking for advise of how to handle the latest move on CARB. MY advise to all is to support the next move that Joyner, ASA, ORBA is trying to make at EPA.
Also for this member who has called us a copier I challenge him to see the new ls2 sand runner and compare how can you compare a production machine with the custom builders sand rail fabricators machine that I have purchased for a summer project is an 85 thousand dollar machine our will be 34999 please if your going to post something please get your facts streight first. Joyner will never use the government to put the competition at a disadvantage.
Go to our web sight in a couple of days and you will see the new ls2 sand runner it look like the 2 ltr sand runner that is on there today. again nothing like any ls2 car out there.

take care
John Burns

John,
I think you are mixing up your forums. I see no mention of you copying another rail on here, that was the Glamis Forum. Although you have to admit, alot of these buggies are starting to look alike.

And $35,000 for a Chinese buggy? darn, you can buy an American made V8 rail for that much.

no you can not buy an ls2 for that the engine alone is over seven thousand with power sterring and the transmission is over seven thoudand also. not to mention the 3m axles and cv that are all american not china all china is building is the frame all other compoenet parts are bought from the same suppliers that the american sand rail guys are buying from . Joyner witch is majority owned by me an American choses to have our frames made overseas. Many do not realize that we do build all our first frames in the USA and all the research and designs are completed in the USA and then sent to our factory overseas. Ask scot at Toy Junkies in Mesa Az he is a dealer that is very streight forward. He is in our new fabrication area weekly and sees what we are doing. Joyner has invested well over 250.000.00 in new equipment from electronic benders to shears for our new fab area. So think of this for a minute why has Joyner been able to get were it is today and no other china factory has been able to. We will not stop designing and bring new machines to the market. Like for a moment look at the new Joyner trooper there is not even a vehicle that is close in looks or durability to this one. We are even selling it to the Military shortly. And there is a mention about us copying sand rail fabrication on this thread and we are not and will not. we do not need to copy anyone. look at some of the machines coming out and look who is the coppier. Kinroad has tries to copy our sand spider that has been out for three years. they also sent to their factory our models. superkarts copied our 1600. I do not care for all this baggering so I will continue to run Joyner in the way that has made it successful and that we will not do anyone wrong and our customers are first. We never turned anyone in at CARB or will we in the future. We will continue to work on industry moving regulations. All the major brands should if they care about the industry work to keep our recreational rights alive and not to allow the goverment or any organzation to take that from us. I am sound in my dream to own and operate a recreational manufacturer however we are our own destiny and only fools do not watch the goverment when they can direct or even devistate your life and company. check out the laws and make sure you now what applies to your company so you do not get them at your door. That is the rule I work under. We have a legal department and a compliance department for each state and federal goverment. This cost money as keeping parts instock and all the testing we do. We also carry insurance and support all the dealers. Joyner is proud please do not put false information up on forums this hurts all the industry not just Joyner leave the forums to the consumers. We all now who is posting these items he did it a year ago also with notions of we had fake lable go back and read the old threads. I ask why go down this path again, Joyner is compliant and will stay compliant.

Thank you'
John Burns and my rail for season that I have been building is most likely not even going to be ready until thanksgiving it is alot of work to build a custom rail and my hand goes out to the custom builders.

I for one would like to thank John for his post. Most who have dealt with the CA DMV knows it can turn into a nightmare very fast. It took me two trys(not Joyner's fault), believe it or not the first time the DMV employee handed me automobile plates. I did speak with a "John" at Thunder during this and he assured me that he would do what ever needed to get done to get me registered. He also mentioned the time and money that Joyner had spent getting these buggies CARB legal and gave me the name and phone number of the DMV investigator that they worked with getting their buggies certified.

As far as the copied buggy, it looks like this was started on the Glamisdunes site and "worked" it's way here. I for one, will not dwell on this subject any longer.

Again, thanks for the post. It's good to hear from the manufacturers every once in a while.

9 Show Roller Long Travel / Complete with Paint, Tires and Wheels $28,950
10 Turn Key Mid Travel / with LS2 Corvette Engine $36,950

I guess you're correct, it takes $37K not $35K for the American made versions. I would gladly pay the extra $2K to know it was made from our metals and by American Cert. welders.

Again you speak of someone stating you are copying someone elses rail in this thread. Read the thread, its not there.

Btw, I applaud the fact that you have been a success. But, if you are going to address the public you may want to learn the difference between "know" and "now" "witch" and "which", or have someone type for you. It could make someone question how well a business is run if you have trouble with the Engllish language.

I used to be a joynor dealer and I can tell you guys this
I dont believe john does anything without linning his pockets
the best way to deal with this is not to buy joynor product or promote it.
I for one have had my feel of joynor and how they treat dealers.
If the chinese want to sell product in ca they need to get with
the laws here and compete with joynor and then the dealers can decide wheather they want to put up with joynor or go somewhere else to purchase product for their customers.

I'm so glad we don't have to put up with this stuff on the East Coast. Not yet anyway. The Joyner's I've seen appear to be well made. They are stable and ride nice, but they are wide and heavy. Therefore they don't really lend themselves too well for riding out here in the Northeast.

By the way, I'm in business and the amount of money someone spends on R&D isn't that big a factor for me. It's all relative to the amount of money they have to make as this money just raises the overhead that needs to be covered. In the end it's the product itself and the value that comes with it.

Remember it is a business.

-

Chris Dierkens
TeamHog