A friend of mine was in a shop in Ontario California and CARB Enforcement Officers came in to see if the vehicles for sale had CARB stickers on the vehicles this dealer was selling. According to CARB, their have been some complaints filed by companies who have CARB filed on companies that do not yet have CARB. One of the companies that filed this complaint was Honda, the other company was Joyner according to CARB. Honda's profits are down 40% this year and new models from China are taking sales away from Joyner every day. I just find it ironic that Joyner would snitch on its competition considering most if not all of what Joyner sold in 2006 had either no sticker or a fake CARB sticker on the vehicles they sold in California. Today I heard Suspension Unlimited in Ontario CA was visited by CARB as well and will have to pay a large fine. Most of the 150 or so companies manufacturing sandrails in the USA today make 6-12 sandrails a year. It is my understanding that to costs $30,000.00 to 50,000.00 to get an engine certified. That is huge financial burden for small companies that only make and sell 6-12 sandrails a year. I guess if Honda or Joyner have their way, they will be the only companies that will be selling sandrails in California. That will be a sad day!

The word is out so I am sure Team Joyner will get a warm reception at the Sand Sport Show this weekend from their competition. I am going to go to the show this weekend. I am looking forward to take a look at some of the other 1100cc and 1600cc at the show. Just my 2 cents.

Calbuggy

Thats a shame. The same company that draws good attention (via racing) to the sport, now draws negative attention. And of course the negative will get ten times the attention.

Would be funny if they find an old Joyner in a shop and fine them as well. Nothing like ratting on yourself!

The mood was not good at the Sand Sport Show. Many companies that have been around for more than forty years will most likely be fined out of existence due to Joyner and Honda complaints to CARB. Joyner had the sandrail they ripped off from Sandrail Fabricators at the show. It is almost impossible to get CARB approval on these large LS1, LS2 and LS7 engines. I am personally disgusted by all of this!

It is bad enough that Joyner has snitched on their competition but they have also ripped off another companies design:
www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php? ... yner&st=25

All of us have to live by the laws set forth in front of us. Why should companies who break the law be allowed to operate?

If we don't follow the CARB and OHV laws in California we're not going to have a sport left. It's already a daily battle just to keep our riding areas open. I don't like the rules anymore then you do but that's the way it is presently.

As for getting those big monster engines CARB legal it can be done. A friend of mine just had a Vortech supercharger kit installed on his 06 Corvette and it's CARB legal. Why can't these sandrail manufacturers do the same? Tell the sandrail guys to start using diesel engines then they wouldn't have to worry about CARB.

SP

Getting CARB certification for an engine intended for one application (street-driven automobile) now installed in another application (off-road buggy) costs small manufacturers too much money. The new rules are application-driven, not component-driven.

The only viable solution for these small shops (unless the rules change) is to sell "kits".

Interesting reading. Sounds as though Joyners business practices have hurt their rep. more then their product.

The US mentality is to ratt everyone out, which is totally absurd. When I was a kid, in the 60's the first thing I was taught is you don't ratt on people, no matter what. People need to keep their mouth shut, and mind their own business. If someone ratts someone out, they better be prepared for the consequences, and don't go crying when the consequences are served.

Anybody who manufactures or sells OEM equipment in the US knows the Chinese "knock offs" are nothing new. What's kind of ironic is that a few years ago, it was the Japanese doing this.

I think Joyner and Honda know that the California market is huge and Honda feels they may have missed the boat with the introduction of the Razr and XATV. Remember years ago when Honda introduced a funny looking 3 wheeled bike with balloon tires? It spawned the ATV market you see today, and they ruled that market.

Joyner has dropped a lot of cash getting their buggy into this market, and I am not sure I can blame them for trying to protect it. But if they are actually starting to copy, no let's call it what it actually is, ripped off another fabricators design, Joyner will get that nasty reputation in a realtivily small market.

I love my two Joyners, but the rip off thing really bugs me. I will probably upgrade my buggies in a year or so, and this will play into my decision.

I have some pictures of a few smaller buggies at this show that I will post later. Look at the Drakart. I didn't get a price and it's probably expensive, but I think it's the same one shown in a video post on this site. Looks like it might out run a full size Joyner and compared to that price, maybe it's not so expensive anymore

Thats todays goverment for you. It is so much easier to go assault and fine these small shops (for publicity catered to the left) selling orv's that in the big picture of things add so little pollution to the atmosphere.
If our goverment is really so interested in air quality then why don't they go round up all the millions of illegal aliens who are here driving illegally and send them back to wherever they came from illegally. I'm sure if we did the math based on X-number of illegals using X-number of gallons of gas or diesel fuel per day (that would be easy enough) the number of gallons of gas/diesel used per day and the amount of pollutants expelled would be astronomical. Need I go further???
This country is being destroyed by those who could not have created it.
Parents get your children out of goverment schools!

This is just my little 3cents.
Van
who by the way does take the time to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
To the "Republic" (we're not a democracy) for which it stands
One Nation under God (who by the way is not Allah)
Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!

The above statement is one of the most ignorant statements I have read in a long time.

When you and your family are on vacation and your neighbor sees some thugs breaking in your house, I wonder if you would appreciate him/her not calling the police and "minding their own business". I hope your family never gets wiped out by a drunk driver who flees the scene, with numerous eye witnesses, I wonder if you would appreciate the wittnesses "keeping their mouths shut" and not wanting to "rat out the driver". I also hope your wife or daughter if you have them never get sexually assaulted and some passerbys ignore their pleas for help because as you said "people should mind their own business".

Am I making/taking worst case scenarios? Yes.
Alustiza made an ignorant, ludicrous blanket statement and I am calling him on it.