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 Post subject: Electric SuperCharger on 150cc GY6
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:22 am 
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O.K., So I got a bright Idea to boost my Visionmotorsport buggy with the Gy6 Motor (150cc). I went down to O'Reilly's and bought a marine exhaust fan that darn near fit perfectly on the intake hose of the buggy. Well, almost, so I went to home depot and bought an adapter tube to make it fit. I took off the exhaust to allow the engine to breath easier, opened it up to WOT, and turned the little sucker on to see what would happened. Engine bogged down immediatly. I ran it without it on just to make sure the airflow wasn't being restricted from the blower fan I installed and it ran fine. I am assuming it wouldn't run turned on due to lack of fuel, which is what I thought would happen since I haven't rejetted or anything. So my question is has anyone thought of doing this and how do I get around the fuel issue. I don't even know how much boost is going to the engine yet (Im guessing between 1/2 pound to 2 pounds), but my buddy said I can buy an electrical regulator to control that. I'm assuming I may have to get an electrical fuel pump of some sort. I'll admit I don't really know what I'm doing here but I thought it would make for a good experiment. Any pointers would be great. Thanks, James

Heres the buggy I have if this helps http://www.visionmotorsport.com/z-2150.php


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:35 pm 
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If you do not get the fuel rich enough, you will turn the engine into a melted peice of aluminum. Running an engine lean will build up alot of heat and seize the engine. I have seen it before and it's not pretty.

RH

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:19 pm 
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Fuel management with any super charger or turbo is essential. Your engine will require less fuel at idle and while you are not WOT and then more as the demand increases. I would imagine you are gonna need to have something that will change fuel curve with timing and air management all in one process like a computer controller. I have thought of this very thing over and over and I can tell you I have not seen any back yard contraption made that does the job. You may be able to get something to work but most likely you will only be able to use a very small amount of boost and I mean VERY small. Of course you will need to re jet the carburetor. A hotter coil will be a must as well as very free flowing exhaust.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:02 pm 
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How about electronic fuel injection?

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 Post subject: Thanks for the replies
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Thanks for the replies....

I found a shop locally here in K.C. with unlimited parts and supplies.
The owner claims to know of a guy who did just this, apparently with some success. If I can find out how he's done it I'll post his setup.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:57 pm 
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First off, the vent fan you are using is meant to move a large volume of air, but it can't "boost" intake pressure much at all. I would be very suprised if it was even close to 1/2psi.
If you do find a way to pressurize or boost the intake, you will also have to pressurize the fuel and the overflow vents on the carb to keep things balanced. You can connect the vent tubes to the intake tube after the fan, but the fuel is another story. I don't think you will be able to just re-jet - you would need a fuel pump, or maybe raise the gas tank to increase the pressure in the fuel line. Also, there is probably a vacuum activated fuel petcock that might give you trouble.
Keep trying though - maybe you'll find a new way to squeeze some more power out of the 150s. I have been thinking of trying the same idea, but never actually done it.

Tim

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:07 pm 
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I think you are pissing up the proverbial rope. Think about how much ait the engine is sucking in at 7,000 rpm's. There is no way an electric fan is going to move that much air. Heck, at anyting above a couple thousand rpms it's going to be a restriction to airflow. Think about how a supercharger or a turbo works. The faster the engine spins, thefaster the turbo/supercharger spins. An electric fan is going to be a single speed. The turbo on a car can exceed 100,000 rpms at wide open throttle! While your at it you can get the tornado thingy and double your fuel economy!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:15 pm 
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i dont think that tornado thing will double your fule economy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:32 am 
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This was a topic that was talked about quite a bit maybe 2 years ago but I can't find those treads, they may have been pruned from the site, Steve?

Any how from what I remember in that discussion, this was not going to work due to the lack of exhaust pressure produced.

Maybe Steve can go into the archives/backups and find those posts and repost them....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:36 pm 
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The above post relates to turbo units not those of the electrical variety

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:42 pm 
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No pruning that I"m aware of...The database just gets bigger and BIGGER!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:13 pm 
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I believe there is a device like this that has been discussed on this forum before.

I think it is called an e-ram

basically an electrical turbo charger. I think one of the 650 or 800cc guys tried it on their buggy, but did not see a noticable differance.

search for e-ram and see what you get.

Chris

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:37 pm 
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i have reached the e-ram befor. i was considering putting it on my 250.the thing with it is it only kicks in at full throttle. since im always pinned anyways i guess it might give me a little extra i dont know how much air the gy6 or the cn250 moves at full throttle. but i do know that the e-ram only can creat 1 psi. i didnt want to pay $300 for some thing that i didnt know would work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:44 pm 
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This is what you need right here


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:23 pm 
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totaly but that will coast $800 and ture modification skill. plus it will probobly blow blo the head


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:26 am 
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I found the topic I was refering to....

http://www.buggynews.com/topic1919.html

http://www.mjmturbos.com/AAAmjm2ndpage.htm

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:38 pm 
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It says 2-4 lbs. boost at the flip of a switch. This has to be worth a try for the price. My question is, How can you regulate the fuel injection? efi is my only guess but I have never delt with that. Here is a link: http://www.chronicauto.com/StoreFrontProfiles/deluxeSFshop.aspx?sfid=180134&c=865940&gclid=CNTpieCtiZUCFReenAodeXWErQ

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:51 am 
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there is NO reason you should add a turbo or supercharger t a 150 unless you hate your buggy!!! lol... the amount of engineering is astronomical... You would need to have your fuel pressurized and anything short of fuel injection is pointless... Once you pressurize the intake charge, the fuel needs to match, and so does the timing, and so on... You would need an O2 sensor, and a computer to control everything so that as boost rises, your A/F ratio maintains your engine and keeps it from knocking or detonating your piston apart... Kock is the numebr 2 reason for engine failure of turbocharged cars. number 1 is poor oil maintenance...

You will have to most likely beef up the internals of the engine...

SO.... that is all with mechanical turbos and supers, and I am leaving a whole ton out for the reason that it would be a waste of typing and bandwidth...

If all of that is necessary for mechanical components... how could you possibly get an electrical component to match it... it is regulated by voltage, and you have to either have a regulator that matches your throttle pedal, or somehow have the electric motor loose voltage at idle so that it spins slow at idle, and fast at WOT... Is it possible, yes... but what little fan motor spins 50K or faster in the rpms??? Your standard 150cc engine can turn upwards of 9000rpms... in order to generate enough eairflow to make ANY difference, you would most likely have to spin that little electric motor at about 150K or more.... Like im4seven said... A factory turbo in a car can spin upwards of 100K... Performance turbos can go 250K rpms... Those make power... Those make performance... those have mechanical fuel pumps, computers and so on to regulate every tiny aspect... What do you have for your 150?


I feel very strongly that ANY electric turbo or supercharger is a fake, p!$$ poor invention, and will only provide a void in your wallet and a frown on your face... If you go... Go all out... Do it right the first time and save tons in the long run, by not wasting your time with gimmicks and guessing...

Good luck!!


John :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:42 am 
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Lets assume it works as advertised and doubles the HP. Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper, and more reliable to just swap in a 250 or some other donor engine? No substitute for cubic inches!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:39 pm 
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im4seven wrote:
Lets assume it works as advertised and doubles the HP. Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper, and more reliable to just swap in a 250 or some other donor engine? No substitute for cubic inches!


That's the best place to spend your resources (time, money, favors, etc..). Put a larger engine in your buggy and the same results will occur.

Besides a larger more powerful engine, the next best thing is to look at loosing weight off your buggy. If it weighs 500lbs and you can find an "extra" 50lbs to drop that's 10%. That has been shown to make a difference in these buggies.

Sometimes the best things are the easiest.

If you really want to go nuts, spend your money and time getting rotary engine like this one.

Image
http://www.cometkartsales.com/store/engine/aixro.htm

Ya', it's $6000 or more, but put that sucker in a buggy and it will fly.... Lightweight and more power than you'll need.

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