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 Post subject: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:47 pm 
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I keep seeing people post about running high octane fuel to get better performance. I have always believed what the article below states. All three of my buggies run on regular 87 and do not ping. I have run premium 91 without seeing mileage or performance differences, so I will not spend more at the pump...

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What Grade Do You Give Your Engine?
By the way, this is no “knock-knock” joke!

You pull up to the pump and usually have three choices: Regular, Mid-grade and Premium. Are these grades the equivalent of “good, better and best?” Have you ever been tempted to give your car a “treat” and upgrade? Do you really have to feed your high performance car that outrageously priced Premium grade?

These questions are not “fuelish,” and the answers are based on something called the octane rating of gasoline. The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. This is meaningful when you recall how a four-stroke, gasoline-fueled engine works. One of the strokes is the compression stroke where the engine compresses a cylinder-full of air and gas into a much smaller volume before igniting it with a sparkplug. The amount of compression is called the compression ratio of the engine. A typical engine might have a compression ratio of 8-to-1. High performance engines generally have a higher compression ratio. Higher octane fuel can better tolerate the greater pressures in high compression engines.

When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the sparkplug, it causes a condition known variously as knocking, pinging or pre-ignition. Knocking generally occurs when climbing steep grades, rapidly accelerating or driving at unusually high altitudes.

Knocking can damage an engine, so it is not something you want to have happening. Lower-octane gas (like Regular-grade 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting. So, the compression ratio of your engine determines the octane rating of the gas you must use in the car.

The gasoline grades have corresponding octane ratings, typically 87 for Regular, 89 for Mid-grade and 91 for Premium with slight variations around the country. Most filling stations sell three grades, but some offer a few more choices between Regular and Premium. Even so, the typical gas station has just two underground storage tanks. Midgrade and other octane ratings are created by blending these two at the pump.

The basic question we want to answer is, “Should you consider spending the extra money for Premium gas?” The answer is a qualified, “No.” The fact is, for most car and truck engines, Regular grade 87 is fine.

That’s good news, but what if your owner’s manual recommends Premium grade fuel? The key word is ‘recommends,’ which really means it’s okay to use Regular under most driving conditions. Virtually every expert – even those from oil companies and auto manufacturers – say that using Regular will not harm engines, but you’ll probably not get the ‘advertised’ performance. In other words, you may add a second to the zero-to-60 mph time a reviewer said you should expect from your car. Again, using Regular gas will not damage the modern engines of most of today’s cars.

Modern engines with advanced computerized engine management systems rapidly adjust their ignition timing at the first indication of knocking. For this reason, using Regular will not void your manufacturer’s warranty unless, in the rare case, your car’s owner’s manual states that Premium grade gasoline is REQUIRED. The owners of high performance engines that require the highest octane are well aware of this fact because high performance was an important factor in choosing their particular cars.

However, if you own a “classic” car or a vehicle that is 10 years old or older and lacks such stuff as electronic fuel injection, computerized engine management and knock sensors and the owner’s manual specifies Premium grade fuel, DON’T USE ANYTHING OTHER THAN PREMIUM! If your vehicle has a supercharger and you drive aggressively, you might also want to use Premium. In this latter scenario, knock sensors cannot sense the condition fast enough because the supercharger boosts pressure too quickly. Of course, if your engine does experience knocking, no matter what vintage or sophistication, feed it the next higher grade of fuel or bring it in for a diagnosis and possibly a tune-up.
Using Premium grade fuel in a vehicle designed to operate on Regular is a complete waste of money. It won’t add to performance since the engine is not designed to make use of the higher octane. Don’t believe that bunk about Premium gas doing a better job of keeping an engine clean. All grades of gasoline contain detergents and additives intended to promote clean combustion.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:58 pm 
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I knew it!!!Great info PGH, Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:06 pm 
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If you run a turbo, supercharger, or decked head this will created greater compression and may result in the need for higher octane fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:11 pm 
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I under stand that ,used to ran turbo corvair in early 70s,Gosh Im old!
even back then they pressure retard on dist.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:57 pm 
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thats a good article the book that came with this sunl said to run 90 octane,so i ran 92.than when the gas prices went up last summer i went to 87.i haven't been able to tell the difference in power or milege.

now we have a gravely with a kohler k301 12hp, cast iron block.it has been bored out 30 over, you just about have to run 92 in it or it will ping and got hot .

pud

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Good article pgh, I have been buying the high priced stuff, and with mileage these things get it wasnt too big a deal, but these days every penny counts. Things get any worse i'm gonna run a little WV Moonshine through this jewel.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:13 am 
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My GTR specifies specifically 92 octane fuel. Now I understand why. Good article. I use 91 octane and it works fine without any knocking. Don't forget guys, your buggy doesn't have a knock sensor. If it says use high grade, use it. If it doesn't then don't. Basically these buggies fall under the 10 year or older car mentioned in the article, since they do nothave knock sensors or computers.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:35 am 
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Funnyman wrote:
I under stand that ,used to ran turbo corvair in early 70s,Gosh Im old!
even back then they pressure retard on dist.

I don't think that predetonation is efficiently prevented by changing ignition timing - You retard the timing far enough back before pinging starts. This will cover up the symptom of low octane fuel, but will hurt your performance. This why you hear of some cars running better on premium - Their timing is retarded to prevent ping and once higher octance is used, the timing can be set for optimal performance. Once timing is at optimum, running a higher octane is a waste of money.

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07 Joyner SandSpider 650 - For Sale
06 Tank Urban Touring 150SE
04 Yerf-Dog Spiderbox 4209 GX150 (SOLD)
04 Yerf-Dog Spiderbox 3206 GX150
81 Honda Passport C70B

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:42 pm 
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This is what they did in the sixties.

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Blade DX 150*
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Sunl 150(sold)
Quiksilver sr 440
150 kinroad racer- mods:its a secret

2010 BUGGYBASH campsite 10 again

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Octane Fuel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:05 pm 
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While everyone will have their own opinion, as well as the author of the article, he didn't state or give reference to any facts. I run 93 octane pump gas in everything I own (car, truck, jet ski, lawnmower, edger, weedeater, now buggy). [i]Expense??[i] what is .10 to .18 cents more a gallon for better fuel? I know my 2000 Maxima runs and pings quite badly on regular fuel. Sometimes even dying on its own. This was when it was new, since then I have put nothing but super in the tank and it hasn't pinged or died once. I must say there has been a few time when a half tank of the regular HAD to be put in but I can count those on 1 hand, and each time the car ran ok but with bad pinging in just normal driving. I haven't had to replace any emission based equipment on the Maxima, and I mainly mean O2 sensor's. I have seen people with a 3 or 4 year old car having cat trouble and O2's failing. I can't help to think that the 87 octane is a contributing factor. Not to mention a slightly unknown fact like the fluid that likes to run out of the muffler... I only saw it when my wife was using regular in her truck and only did it in my car when regular was in. That watery looking liquid was mainly un-burnt fuel. When super is in the tank this doesn't occur. So the .18 cents your saving in using the less octane fuel is just running out the tailpipe anyways, not to mention there is more allowable amount of water and other contaminents in 87. I don't know I guess its just a matter of opinion. I could find an article to contridict the one above... and so on and so forth.

No disrespect Pghruby.

Jarrod

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