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 Post subject: joyner 650 weber carb upgrade
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:56 pm 
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Location: Maricopa Az
If you purchased Fast freddy's webber kit and hooked it up as the instructions supplied. Im finding i cannot get full throttle because there not enough adjustment in joyner linkage. Pull the air cleaner and take a mirror have a helper push the throttle pedal all the way to the floor,look in the mirror and see if you are getting w.o.t. I treid this i was only getting about 3/4 throttle using all adj. I ended up removing the throttle pedal and band sawing a half circle to clear the frame rail. Its about the beefiest gas pedal there's plenty of meat you will have lots of room and will not weaken it at all. Well what a difference,come on turbos ill give you a better run than you think i will. Another help im at 33 degrees advance, valves 7 thou. This has helped also.Ifeel 5 thou. on valves is to tight.If you want to see my buggy ill be at the cinders july 26 we always camp by dry lake. great riding hope to see you there az.

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:26 pm 
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Location: Northern AZ
Ghost, you are still looking at this as turbo vs carb. The carb is a fuel metering device. It regulates how much fuel is sent down to the pistons. The turbo is an air delivery device. They do different things. The thing to do is to upgrade both. On our turbo 650 we have a weber carb which is light years ahead of the stock carb and probably gave us 10 to 12 HP just because of better fuel delivery, and then a turbo with about 8 lbs of boost that gave another 15 to 20 hp. We run premium gas, but even that isnt needed, Ive run regular because it was all i could get and still didnt get any preignition. With this setup, 1st gear which is usually too high is just right and 4th becomes a cruising gear instead of virtually useless. I have a top speed of around 70 at 8000 ft elevation which probably will be about 5 to 10 mph faster at sea level. I am not knocking you carb install I think it is a great first step. Now put a turbo on it keep the boost at 10 lbs or less and watch that thing really open up. Van

PS nothing against the kit fast freddy sells, but carbs are a dime a dozen out there, because of the VW market. We purchased our weber off craiglist for $100 bucks. Set it up for the spider and were off and running. Dont just look at weber either there are alot of carbs that will work well. My next step is to go to a 2 barrel like the holley bug spray or weber progrssive which should give me better drivability and even more hp.

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2005 Joyner 650 Turbo, 8lbs boost
2006 Roketa soon to be 1000cc
2006 sunl 1000- FOR SALE
2005 Corvair powered 4 seater- FOR SALE
1985 250sx trike
2005 250 Joyner DD highly modded- FOR SALE
2006 Joyner DD 300cc Polaris 2 stroke
2007 Joyner 250 Turbo


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 Post subject: turbo vs carb
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Location: Maricopa Az
I have worked tiltson, bing, delarto, kehlin, mekunie,webber hads down has been the best performer,easier to change jets,and tune,plus lots of parts axail. Im not disputing that turbos are faster than carbs,i know tubos are faster. Turbos are with all the plumbing butt ugly. Ive only seen mabe one or two setups pleasing to the eye. Im running a 32dcof 2 barrel the idle , and accer. are unreal. For a 1200.dollar mod i would recommend to anyone. Top speed on gps 71 mph 1800 feet.

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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 Post subject: turbo vs. carb
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:46 pm 
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Hey Vanet i will be up your way july 26,27 at the cinders in flag. I camp on the north side of the crater in the dry lake. I have large wht.chevy van and a rampage toy hauler you can't miss me. Convince me to blow another 1000.bucks and make my buggy look like swimming pool pump. Hope you can make it the race is on WAHOO.

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:29 pm 
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Im about three hours from flagg but I have been wanting to go to Cinders. I was planning to go for the big bash in August, but I might make it that weekend. I will try to find you. As for the turbo looking funny mine is all painted black and most people look at least twice before they even know it is there. I will be curious to see how much the elevation slows down your buggy. Do a gps run and let me know so I can adjust mine. I am going to mexico in November but I hate to wait that long to find out how much top speed I will pick up. I am also curious as to what you have to do if anything to your car at the higher elevation. Do you have to rejet or can you just adjust the carb with a screw driver and call it good? As far as price a buddy and I just put together a turbo for his buggy and the cost was less than 400.00. Bought the turbo on the net (I forget the site, but all they sell is reconditioned turbos) for around 185, fuel pump was another 50 and we found a plumbing kit on ebay that had most every thing else, except gauges. The gauges we got at the wrecking yard for 5 bucks off a wrecked sprint. I know not everybody can get that kind of deal but you definatly do it for alot less than 1000.00. Van :D

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2005 Joyner 650 Turbo, 8lbs boost
2006 Roketa soon to be 1000cc
2006 sunl 1000- FOR SALE
2005 Corvair powered 4 seater- FOR SALE
1985 250sx trike
2005 250 Joyner DD highly modded- FOR SALE
2006 Joyner DD 300cc Polaris 2 stroke
2007 Joyner 250 Turbo


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 Post subject: weber jetting
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:33 pm 
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Location: Maricopa Az
Ive already down jetted my weber i hope i went far enough. Last year i didn't go small enough it was a little sluggish. My truck has fuel injection no problem there. I just installed trans. cooler with inline magnetic filter it works in tandom with stock cooler plus a water misting system. Will see how it works on those long climbs pulling 9000lbs. By the way a you running air cooler on your turbo. I would think a cooler charge would give even more h.p. Well hope to see you thanks for letting me jerk your chain a little . Its been great going back and forth with you.

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:53 am 
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You too. No on the cooler, in my climate with the open engine compartment and where the air filter is it doesnt seem worth it. Hope I can get there.

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2005 Joyner 650 Turbo, 8lbs boost
2006 Roketa soon to be 1000cc
2006 sunl 1000- FOR SALE
2005 Corvair powered 4 seater- FOR SALE
1985 250sx trike
2005 250 Joyner DD highly modded- FOR SALE
2006 Joyner DD 300cc Polaris 2 stroke
2007 Joyner 250 Turbo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:43 am 
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bit late repling, I can tell you regarding the webbers, my brother and I have sandspiders 650cc and I give mine hell, I imported series 2 and my brothers was series 3. Before my brother changed the standard setup to the webber I took great pleasure ramming him from behind, since he changed to the webber I just need to try a litle harder but there no escape. The webbers based on cost gave him little more and 1/2 the fuel economy.


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 Post subject: weber carb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Does your brother have 1 barrel or 2barrel carb any exhasut mods sounds like a tuning problem. Are you running a turbo.

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:52 pm 
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Hey ghost I wasnt able to get to flagg. How did it go? Did the elevation rob much power? I was able to take my 1000 out for a top speed run a couple of weeks ago after I changed the filter out for a K@N. By gps I got to 76 but there was still more there. At that speed it started to feel squirley and I back out since I was on a tree lined road up here in the mountains. My point is I am not sure I want too much more top speed in the 650 I am not sure it would handle it. Of course if I was in the dunes with nothing to hit it might be a different story. Van

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2005 Joyner 650 Turbo, 8lbs boost
2006 Roketa soon to be 1000cc
2006 sunl 1000- FOR SALE
2005 Corvair powered 4 seater- FOR SALE
1985 250sx trike
2005 250 Joyner DD highly modded- FOR SALE
2006 Joyner DD 300cc Polaris 2 stroke
2007 Joyner 250 Turbo


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 Post subject: cinders
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Location: Maricopa Az
hey Vanet The cinders was great time it rained every night sunny during the day no dust. The park service has closed more trails since last year. There still lots of places to ride. Lots of other buggys,joyner,roketta,yerf dog,utvs,and some v6,v8 stuff too. Bring lots of jets i put in the smallest jets i had in the 650 and it still wanted more air. I got it to run better but still was a little sluggish. There no place there to really open up except in the cinders. If you go rippen rear end down the road you will get busted. Out on yhe cinders there contineous woops.High up in third gear and into 4th the rear end would start to leave the ground. So i could not really any get any wide open runs in high gear. You missed a great time Ghost!

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 11:52 am
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Location: Alberta, Canada
I finally recieved my carb from Fast Freddy!! UPS lost it in the mail for 4 weeks and made me miss most of the summer!

But either way I got it installed but have a few questions:

With Fast Freddies thermostat housing the sensor for the fan has been removed, how do I connect the wires so my fan only runs when it is sopposed to?

Also in tuning the carb I found that 2.25 turns on the mixture screw and 1 turn on the idle screw is the best postition, from the tuning guidelines that shows that I am running lean. What size of jets do I need to have 1.5 turns on the mixture and only 0.5 turns on the idle?

Also I didnt get the exhaust system how much restriction does the catalic converter cause?

I am hoping to get it tuned up for some fall riding,

Thanks

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Joyner 650 Sand Spider, Weber Carb
Honda XR 400
Honda Foreman 500


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:01 pm 
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For the fan most just wire it up to run any time the key is on or to a switch that manually turns on when you notice the temp getting high. If you want to keep the thermostat you will have to find another waterport to screw it into. One idea might be the temp gauge spot. If you have a temp gauge then get a t and put them both there or if you dont then just screw in the sensor and wire it to the fan. As far as the carb, there are too many variables to be able to tell you the exact jet size. Just read the plugs. Set it where it runs the best, no matter what the instructions say and then drive a little while. Then pull one or more of the plugs. If you are running rich the plug will be black with fuel on it. If you are running lean it will be white in color. You are looking for a light brown with no oily fuel residue. Good luck

_________________
2005 Joyner 650 Turbo, 8lbs boost
2006 Roketa soon to be 1000cc
2006 sunl 1000- FOR SALE
2005 Corvair powered 4 seater- FOR SALE
1985 250sx trike
2005 250 Joyner DD highly modded- FOR SALE
2006 Joyner DD 300cc Polaris 2 stroke
2007 Joyner 250 Turbo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:28 pm 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
I was thinking the tee! But I was hoping that a pre-made solution exists!

I also am wondering what to do with the hose that runs from the distrubuter to the old stock carb? I have it plugged but isnt this needed to advance the timing at high RPM?

I am thinking of just removing the material from the catalic converter to allow for more air flow on the exhaust side until I can get my own exhaust made!

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Joyner 650 Sand Spider, Weber Carb
Honda XR 400
Honda Foreman 500


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:34 pm 
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darkdw15 wrote:
I am thinking of just removing the material from the catalic converter to allow for more air flow on the exhaust side until I can get my own exhaust made!

Someone else went to this trouble and found no gain in performance (only noise). Search the forum for "catalytic".

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09 Joyner SandViper 250 HERS
08 Joyner SandViper 250 HIS
07 Joyner SandSpider 650 SOLD
04 YerfDog 4209 Spiderbox GX150 SOLD
04 YerfDog 3206 Spiderbox GX150 SOLD
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NW Riding - http://www.buggynews.com/viewforum.php?f=54


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:58 pm 
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If all you do is take the ceramic out of the converter it probably wont amount to much of a power gain, but it does offer alot of resistance. With your new carb and a high flow filter you will need to get rid of it to help the engine breath. What works good is to get a stinger muffler with the removable discs then you can tune the exhaust for the best noise to performance ratio. Fast freddy has them and they arnt that much, maybe 30 or 40 dollars. You dont want an exhaust with no back pressure, that kills your bottom end. You want just the right amount of back pressure so that you have decent torque off the line but still maintain a free flowing exhaust. I think chris (laymanism or something like that) had one on his 800cc that he said worked well. Mostly you see them on vw type aplications. Ive got a buddy that has one that he is still fine tuning but it seem to work well.

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2005 Joyner 650 Turbo, 8lbs boost
2006 Roketa soon to be 1000cc
2006 sunl 1000- FOR SALE
2005 Corvair powered 4 seater- FOR SALE
1985 250sx trike
2005 250 Joyner DD highly modded- FOR SALE
2006 Joyner DD 300cc Polaris 2 stroke
2007 Joyner 250 Turbo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Hi Wanted to bring to your attention you are dumping about twice the fuel or more than with stock carb. I would run some kind of aftermarket exhaust or i feel you will not get full benifit from the new weber. Isaw a setup were this guy took his buggy to midas. They cut of the stock flange and from that they fabbed 2 into 1 exhaust there was a collector on that he mounted a supper trap, now you can tune from both ends. You can change jets and adjust exhaust back pressure. He said it was cheaper than freddy's header. If you insist on keeping the cat, do a bunch of test runs and adjustments,plug readsings till you get it to run as good as you can.If your still rich,call nick at freddy's tell him the setup, your elevation and he will send you new jets. Nick really nows his stuff! Ido not feel you will be happy with perfm. with stock exhaust. Ghosthunter Will

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Check out Team Farm's exhaust. He also has the Fast Freddie carburetor setup.


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09 Joyner SandViper 250 HERS
08 Joyner SandViper 250 HIS
07 Joyner SandSpider 650 SOLD
04 YerfDog 4209 Spiderbox GX150 SOLD
04 YerfDog 3206 Spiderbox GX150 SOLD
64 VW 1600SP FOR SALE
57 VW 1200 BUS
NW Riding - http://www.buggynews.com/viewforum.php?f=54
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 Post subject: fan switch Dist. advance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:22 pm 
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Location: Maricopa Az
Hi i have a switch on my buggy works great, make sure you put a inline fuse with the switch 15amp. You don't need the vacuum advance. I can't tell the difference either way. Bring the no.1 cyl. to top dead center after the intake has closed. I use the same top end center gauge we used on the bikes. Once you have that established mark with white paint or nail polish the scale down by the crank. With timing light installed engine running move the distribtor till it stays at 32-33 degrees full advance. If you run out of adjustment i had to pull the dist. and move it back 1 tooth. this setup works great for me. Any problems keep threading in Ghosthunter Will

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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 Post subject: exhaust
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Hey team farm if you wrap that header with 2" header wrap you will get more performance. Cheap mod.about 15.00.Wrap it wet use ahose clamp to start about 1" overlaps another hose clamp at the end. Smokes like hell on the first start up.The wrap will shrink around the pipe. About 50% cooler at least. Proven fact wrapped headers keep the exhaust charge hotter inside the pipe causing better cylinder scavaging, a better burn. Pluss that header crosses right past the seat back. You will really tell the diff. midday in hotter wheather. Ghosthunter Will

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650 sandspider,downdraft empi carb,velocity stacks,lt header,ported head,wisco pistons,isky cam 8mm msd wires, 7"HID LIGHTS,sunpro tac,Progressive shocks,LED lights,alum.radiator


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