My email is at the bottom. What do you guy's think of this responce? I think it's kinda week. So what to do next? What would you like to say? I need these laws changed


Hi Chuck,
The reason why mini buggies, go-carts and utility vehicles or side by sides are not included in the description of an OHV is that when the OHV program was first established through support from OHV enthusiasts and lobbyist that it was for the support of creating OHV riding areas based on the number of OHV recreation users of dirt bike motorcycles and all-terrain vehicle users through our legislatures. They created the T. Mark Schmidt OHV program. In order to get legislature approval it had to also be excepted by the major environmental groups that lobby for the protection and conservation of Florida's natural habitats. This took many years of hard work from the major OHV enthusiasts groups to come up with a definition that would be excepted by all legislators at the time the law or Florida Statute was created. The current definition can be found on our state OHV website at www.floridaohv.org under state statutes 261. I appreciate your inquiry and if you have any further questions please contact me. Tami Leonard, OHV Coordinator

________________________________

From: Chuck Kidwell [mailto:chuck@cklandscapingflorida.com]
Sent: Tue 3/24/2009 6:05 PM
To: Leonard, Tami
Subject: Buggies


I was just wondering why it is that mini buggies are not allowed at most ohv parks? We are for the most part only a few inch's wider than most atv's. The up side to our choice of ohv is where safer. 4-5 point seat belts, roll cage, stable, and usually much slower. Most of us are 250cc or less and with the added weight of the cage we are slow and steady. Just a thought. If you don't know of these buggies you should visit buggynews.com or check out mbra's web sight

Thanks
Chuck

I think its the way the buggy's are classified " go karts ". if they were classified as an ohv or atv then it wouldnt be a problem

Chuck -

Her answer is not weak, per se - she did answer the question with the facts as they occurred. Mini-buggies simply didn't exist at the time, (or not in sufficient numbers to matter) therefore there were not enough of them to band together and make enough of a lobby to be included.

It's a similar story out here in Oregon, where we have 3 classes of OHVs - ingeniously named Class I, Class II, and Class III. Class I and III are ATVs (quads) and off-road motorcycles. Class 2 is any 4-wheeled vehicle that is wider than 50". In other words, buggies are in the same classification as Jeeps and other 4x4 vehicles that are MUCH larger than buggies.

We have an number of OHV parks here that are closed to Class II vehicles because the trails are not really wide enough to accept these larger (mostly road legal) cars and trucks, even though the buggies would fit just fine.

It's kind of a crappy catch-all miscellaneous category that buggies are lumped into but once again, at the time that the laws were made we didn't really exist as a sport or organized group to fight for our rights. If an when we do decide to try to get more places opened to us, we're going to need as many numbers and strong leadership as we can get.

It won't happen overnight, and it's not going to be easy. Not necessarily because there will be a lot of opposition (of which there will probably be some), but because these processes are just slow. The government moves slower than the post office on sedatives.

The key is to be organized, have all your ducks in a row, and be prepared before you start. That will help fend off any opposition.

-Mike

See but down here they wont let you ride with big vehicals or atv. It's a go cart so you cant use it like a jeep here, and it's a few inch's to wide and you dont stradle the seat so it's not an atv.

When I said weak I just meant I would have liked some coarse of action to change this not an excuse as to why it is. I understand that things need to be worded right to get through in politics. What can we do now? Who would I organize with I'm bout the only florida boy on here it seems. At least not enough to mean anything.

I just think it looks bad when your forced to break the law to ride. I will break the law to ride to. We have way to much crime for the cops to worry about who owns those woods

I've got a number of customers from Florida, and Eric probably does too, so there are folks from down that way.

I know some of them are just scooter people looking for a good deal on our stuff, but some of them have to be buggyers.

-Mike

could we here at buggynews, petition all of the importers/mfr'rs/distributors of these buggys, reclassify from "go-kart" to another class, such at OHV's, or something similiar?

I woul think we could but it would'nt do any good here. You would have to stradle the seat and be just over 50in. to be a ohv

you could always put a saddle horn between your legs. hey, you'd be straddling it then.

Chuck I would try to find a state congressman/senator who paticipates in off-roading. Call around to some the bike shops and see if they know who rides. Then contact his office and try to set an appointment. They alot very little time for meetings like this so get straight to the point after a cordial hello. Take a few pictures of a buggy so he can see what you are discussing. Don't go in saying that it's not fair the way the law is written , sell him on the safety factor of the buggies . Now he presents a bill that is intended to improve the safety of off-roading, not a bill that is going to be a red flag to the enviromentalists. Politicians love sponsoring legislation that looks like they are protecting public welfare.

Well I sent another email and this is what I got. Seems darn near impossible being theres only like 3 of us down here. What you guy's think


Hi Chuck,
I can give you suggestions and it will not be an easy task that will happen quickly. It will take time and a lot effort on your part as well as others who share your desire to have areas in which you can utilize the buggy vehicle.
I will try to be brief on the items you will need to do. If you have any questions can respond back for clarification.


*
Contact NOHVCC, they can assist you in providing information and building recognition and acceptance that your type of OHV recreation provides in positive format for you to work with your government agencies and Legislative process. Web site is www.nohvcc.org , talk with a live person at nohvcc as well
*
Do you have club or organization that can provide you support in numbers?
*
Develop a Grass Root Support mechanism by establishing an Advisory Committee composed of OHV Enthusiasts, Environmental Clubs, OHV Organizations, Chamber of Commerce, General Public, Public Relations Programs or agencies, that would be willing to be on your organization's support team.
*
Develop a partnership or working relationship with a legislator or an attorney, or senators and representatives that can help write strategic plans, legislative proposals and work through the legislation process
*
Look at efforts other states do for the same type of recreational activity that you want to promote! Determine what it is you want such as public riding areas or laws or statute that help to keep your recreational activity recognized within your community or state wide and the number of users that support your activity

I know that this over whelming but it is a start in which to build upon. Tami Leonard, OHV Coordinator





________________________________

From: Chuck Kidwell [mailto:chuck@cklandscapingflorida.com]
Sent: Fri 3/27/2009 6:42 AM
To: Leonard, Tami
Subject: RE: Buggies




I respect the reasons for the wording as well as the tough fight to even get this law passed. Now what? If the off road community wishes to reduce illegal riding and the negative impact it causes, we need to stop excluding such a large group. What would you suggest we do at this point?

Thanks
Chuck