Yes, nice work John. Looks like you are really trying to help the industry as a whole. Good for you and good for us as consumers

I will be talking to CARB and EPA in the morning I will confirm that all buggies must demostrate the durability. I am sure of this or why would they be making Joyner vehicle go through this. The regulation is to protect the consumer so they get a sound emmisions vehicle and i do think it is right . All manufacturer must register with the Federal EPA also. You can not import anymore with out it.

JOHN

Super-Kart LLC.
570 Central Ave. Bldg. G
Lake Elsinore Ca 92530

Date: 9-15-06
Subject: EPA-CARB Engine Used in Sandrails


Dear Anne Wicke,

We are having a meeting with CARB today at the Sand Show tonight to discuss the engines that are used in sandrails. The sandrail manufacturers would have to spend millions of dollars to get into compliance and this would destroy a 40 year old industry, We feel that race cars, competition cars, yachts, offshore boats, powerboats, private airplanes, jet planes, funny cars, custom motorcycles, top fuel dragsters, Nascar, Indy Cars, race cars, foreign ships, cruise ships, helicopters etc all have some sort of EPA exemption. For the same reason that EPA granted an exemption for these other industries products we want one for our Mom and Pop industry. We are going to rally the industry for an outright EPA-CARB exemption on the engines used in the sandrails we build.

Our customers burn between 20 and 100 hours of fuel per year at best. Considering the normal commute in LA is 1.5 hours each way this is the same as driving four weeks to and from work at the most based on 100 hours of use. Most customers drive their sandrails less than 20 hours a year so that is the same or less than driving seven days to and from work. Most of the time they are driving less than 50mph due to the terrain so the fuel consumed would be less than driving on the freeway at freeway speeds. I am sure we can get the statistical evidence to support this from the sandrail industry if needed. Simply make in mandatory to put an hour meter in all sandrails vehicle sold in 2007 and then collect that data from the hour meters a year later and then make a decision based on that data.

Off-roading is a family sport! Most customers only go out to the Sand Dunes or Desert with their family and friends twice a year so they are closer to the 20-hour figure regarding fuel burned. These engines cannot be expected to comply with the same rigid standards that are used for car engines today. They burn less fuel than all other exempt motorized sports so it does not make sense for EPA, CARB or our government to discriminate against a 40 year old industry just because we drive sandrails instead of power boats or fly planes on the weekend. The industry cannot comply without spending millions of dollars that the majority of companies do not have to spend. In our customers quest for horsepower the end result will be the same, except the landfills would will be full of smog equipment that customers removed once the sandrail was sold at retail. It is unrealistic to expect this industry to comply. The engines used in most sandrails today are either car, snowmobile or motorcycle engines so they are relatively clean burning engines compared to the engine used years ago.

There are approximately 150 companies making off-road sandrails in the USA at the moment. Many of these companies produce less than 12 sandrails per year and they do not have the money to get each motor tested in each type of vehicle and still survive. Getting engines tested on each vehicle (even with lower standards) is not supported by the majority of the sandrail industry, The sandrail industry supports an outright exemption and without an exemption most companies will be put out of business overnight. It would be almost be impossible for the industry to comply without putting the majority of manufacturers out of business. Policing sandrails that do not have EPA or CARB engines is a nightmare for the EPA and CARB, as you know all too well. Sandrail manufacturers are Mom and Pop companies and so they do not have the time, capital or resources to spend to get into compliance. They do not have the deep pockets of companies like Honda, GM or Ford for example. An exemption is the only answer and we would love your support once you, EPA and CARB understand our position and family sport better.

Who do we need to speak to within the government to start our process started regarding getting an EPA exemption for our sport? Remember we are already using EPA-CARB approved engine but our sandrails are less than 50hp so this is not about us but it is about the future of sandrail industry as a whole. I look forward to discussing this with you and the appropriate authorities at EPA and CARB soon. Thank you.

Sean McDonald
CEO

Phone: (951) 259-5169

www.super-kart.com

FYI: Anne Wicke is Head of EPA Enforcement. I have also sent a copy of this letter ot Michele Shultz in Enforcement at CARB. I have given this letter to every sandrail manufacturer at the Sand Show this weekend. They all support my letter. Testing each engine on each vehicle will never happen. This is a joke. We have no less than four different models and over six different engines so we would have to submit to 24 different EPA-CARB tests. That will never happen because even with lower standards no one could really afford it. We need an exemption, period. Why would anyone not support an exemption? The USA sandrail builders from my point of view are the most innovative group of vehicle builders in the world. They collectively build amazing machines that are some of the toughest and safe vehicles built on the planet. I am so proud to be part of this group and I think we will get exemption in we get organized and we have the support of ORBA and ASA and other off-road groups. I look forward to working with the industry on getting an exemption for all. I am geeting ready to head off to a meeting at the Sand Show this morning to address this matter with representatives from CARB, ORBA and fellow sandrail manufacturers. While we are all very competative, this is one issue we need to work together on for the common good of the industry. This years sandrail show is even bigger and better than ever. If you have a chance and you are local to Orange County Fairgrounds please come by today and see all the latest and greatest in our industry. I have already seen and spoke to many members of this forum. Thank you.

Sean@Super-Kart.com

You might as well ask for an exemption for all street machines then. Only significant difference between sandrail and hotrod is the "road" surface.

Worth trying for, but since ORBA is already backing the other set of new rules, I don't know what the chances are in all honesty.


-S

ORBA Meeting on CARB & EPA CERTIFICATION

I along with about 50 manufacturers went to the ORBA meeting regarding EPA-CARB certification on our sandrails starting January 1st, 2007. ORBA gave us a brief history on the whole issue. They told us that we all need to join and that we need to get all our vendors to join. I agree. I told them that we had about 150 sandrail builders and that each builder should start with a $1,000.00 contribution to help ORBA get this issue resolved. Some of ORBA's lobbyist also spoke about waht it would take to win this fight. A few people who attended some of the previous meetings told everyone about their take on the meeting they had with CARB.

John From Suspensions Unlimited told us that they had made a deal to give us a few years to get compliant and then reneged on that deal. He also supported my position to try and get an outright exemption based on our sandrails being race cars. John told us all to start attending the meetings at CARB so they could see that we really care about what is happening in our industry.

John from Thunder Inc. spoke about the 5 EPA certifications that he had gotten on his vehicles and seem to support EPA–CARB certification with reduced standards with the engines in vehicles. He said he was the only one in the industry that had EPA certification for sandrails. John told everyone that these tests with reduced standards cost about $10,000.00 each. He spoke about everyone getting registered with the EPA as a manufacturer.

Grant from Funco also told us that he also attended this meeting and that CARB was dead serious about enforcement. I also gave then a shortened version of my letter to Anne Wicke basically explaining that while John and I might be able to get the smaller (under 1000cc) engine certified under EPA and CARB that the majority of the engines used by this group would never pass certification due to the high horsepower. I told them that we should form some sort of racing association so we could use the current race car exemption to legally sell our sandrails to our customers. This would involve setting up racing events at various locations throughout the year as well as having practice sessions each weekend at the various riding area throughout the country. I also suggested getting a lobbyist and the same lawyers that got exemptions for race cars.

I told them that we were all wasting our time thinking any of us could afford to do what they want us to do. For example, under their current plan if you have four different models and four different engines then you would have to pay for 16 different tests at $10.000.00 each. Most of the manufacturers could not afford this. If we have to get our engines certified then I think it should only be on the engines stand. Any engine that is tested on an engine stand and passes should be allowed to put into any vehicle. Why anyone would want to test each engine with each vehicle is beyond me. We can have reduced standards on the engine stand as well.

This real world testing is pure BS. Everyone rides in different places. When two stroke engines were outlawed in California previously you would think that this was a result of EPA or CARB wanting to clean up the air. Well that was partially true but if you investigate the matter you will find that some of the large manufacturers from Japan who wanted to introduce their new four stroke engines were really behind the push to ban two strokes engines.

It is the general consensus from a some manufacturers that the same thing happening here as well. While some companies portray themselves as trying to help the industry it really is about themselves and their sales so be aware. In England they call this Snooker.

I told them that the only answer was outright exemption. I suggested putting in a hour meter in all new sandrails sold in 2007 and then collect the data a year from the date sold so we could determines how many hours we really all drive over the course of the year and then revisit what need to be done based on that data. I estimate that even an avid driver (duner, desert pr trail rider) drives his or her car less than 100 hours per year.

I pointed out all the other things that were CARB or EPA exempt . I touched on most of the points in my letter and I also handed it out. They asked for volunteers to head up a committee and I signed up. Hopefully we will be able to get the exemption and that will be my goal. I do not know who else signed up but I am sure ORBA will publish this on their site.

Sean

Good information Sean.

Good to see you are attempting to go through those channels. It's probably the only way anything will really get done for you guys out there.


-Steve

I may have missed this in the flurry of posts about EPA standards...WHAT are the durability tests and requirements for these buggies?

Yeah Really!!! What is the test that they put these things through? After driving ours through pretty much everything! and she still runs almost prefect!! LOL