1. How do these new rules affect the CA consumer? Once we purchase
a "compliant" buggy, if we modify that "dog" so it hunts, are we, as
individuals, in violation of the rules? I believe so...including the
removal of that compliant tune up sticker (which I believe will have to
be huge, not to mention ugly) for whatever reason (custom parts, paint
etc.)
3. How are these rules to be enforced on the individual consumer? Is
the "Republic" going to start "inspecting and smog checking" late model
buggies/ATV's in order to get a green sticker renewal?
4. With regards to DMV, how will these new rules effect the current "Red
and Green" sticker registrations.
5. Will there be a process to have aftermarket parts/performance items
certified with an EO number so that we can legally upgrade our late
model off road vehicles?


I realize the effort is to reduce air pollution in CA. and this is but one "small" part, and I do mean small. It's not like these are your everyday drivers. Too bad the state can't focus on the gross pollutors...oh, but those guys can purchase Smog Credits....

Errrr...sorry for the outburst. No offense directed to CARB, they are just doing the job mandated by our legislators. I applaud them for their willingness to work with this industry. However, what does this do to your everyday hot rodder who buys a new off road toy?

Respectfully...mick

I've cleaned this thread up. Let's keep these question and answer threads clean so that the EPA and CARB officials feel welcomed to give their feedback. That is what this section is for. That would mean keeping terms like "greenies" and "tree huggers" out of threads in this section... thank you.

I look forward to answers to some of these questions.


-Steve

Generally speaking, those that are subject to CARB's regulations are the manufacturers, not the consumers. Whether an engine remains "compliant" depends on the modification that is done. Such aftermarket parts are also required to be certified in California and are issued an Executive Order. You can find out more about that here:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/a ... tm#offroad


[I didn't see a "question #2."]




"Inspecting" occurs primarily at dealerships. However, the regulations also provide for inspections of "in-use" vehicles. I am not personally involved in that aspect of things, so I cannot comment on what "remedies" are/would be imposed; but returning it to "compliance" would likely be part of it.




The new rules do not effect the registration; but only motorcycles and ATVs are eligible for "Red" sticker registration.




Yes. See answer to question #1.

We've heard that buggies are being given RED stickers.

From your comments above... are the mini buggies being considered ATVS???

I think some of the confusion that members here have is that the same vehicle seems to be treated differently at different times by different employees at the DMV, or at different DMV offices.


-Steve

Thank you for your responses. With regards to registration, I gather that all these mini buggies and "go karts" are not ATV's and therefore will be registered for off road use as Dune Buggies. However, I believe some on here have received "red stickers" on their buggies.

Another question, if you will..Will dealers be subject to penalties, if they provide performance modifications for their customers that may make an off road vehicle non-compliant? I realize the consumer can install anything they like at their own risk, but do these rules tie the hands of the dealerships?

Regards,
mick

As I expected, I'm learning a thing or two as well. I had not heard of dune buggies receiving "Red" sticker registration. This is something I'll need to look into...

But, no, buggies are not considered ATVs. They both share the same test procedures for demonstrating compliance to California's exhaust and evaporative emission standards... and folks often call these the "ATV test procedures"... but for a number of reasons, they are considered different types of off-highway vehicles.

I'll get back to you on the dealer/aftermarket question, Mick...

Seems to me it's never been more important than right NOW to get this terminology thing nailed down. These 4-wheeled vehicles with brush guards, seats and seatbelts that typically go a max of 40mph and are under 25 hp...that describes probably 95% of what the membership here owns...can we agree to call them mini-buggies? The above quote is confusing because I don't know if he's referring to dune buggies or our mini-buggies. Why would a mini-buggy receive a different certificate when it uses the exact same engine as an atv? It's the engine and its pollutants that's the issue--not whether you sit IN or ON it. isn't it?

Stu from Blade used the term "Trail Buggies" in a post he made a couple of days ago. I think that is a perfect description for our buggies. Definitly sets us apart from the bigger sand rails.

Keith

I agree, terminology is going to determine, for a good part, the cost of these buggies in terms of stock and upgrades. What did Cali call the Honda Odyssey or Pilot? It would seem to me these buggies should be treated in the same manner. Now, I have an 800cc buggy, which may fall more in line with the "dune" buggy catagory. CARB would be doing a great dis-service to the industry and customers by lumping 650cc and below in with "dune" buggies.

Soc

I agree. But also the notion that it's an atv if you straddle the seat and a buggy if you sit IN it seems totally arbitrary.

"250cc 4-wheeled off-road vehicle with full suspension and brakes" applies equally to an atv and our machines. For the purpose of emissions testing who cares if you sit on top or it surrounds you? I've alway s been puzzled by this "distinction". I was splitting hairs with a lawyer once and he used the phrase "a distinction without a difference". That seems to fit this situation well.