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 Post subject: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:29 am 
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So i am new to this board and need some help. i just picked up a carter 250 that was not running hoping it was something simple. well Devils Den TX looked at it and he saw metal in it. at that point i was scared. after taking it all apart i saw the horror. the piston had exploded in the cylinder, like a grenade. luckily the cylinder is good to my surprise.

does any one know how this would happen? :shock: :shock: :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:32 am 
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add last picture


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:40 am 
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Looking at those pics still make me cringe !

At a loss for words on possible cause outside of water in gas... lots of water :?

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:06 am 
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Running it too lean with an intake leak?

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:03 pm 
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WHOA!!! Wowsers. That's nasty. I got Devil Dens's message. It will be a couple of weeks before I can get to my head swap on my GTR to get you the stock head.

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:59 pm 
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EVILWS6 wrote:
WHOA!!! Wowsers. That's nasty. I got Devil Dens's message. It will be a couple of weeks before I can get to my head swap on my GTR to get you the stock head.



Yes sir thank you in advance !

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:02 am 
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If I had to guess I would say it lost a valve at high rpm and the valve head just beat everything to death before it came to a stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:18 pm 
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EVILWS6 wrote:
WHOA!!! Wowsers. That's nasty. I got Devil Dens's message. It will be a couple of weeks before I can get to my head swap on my GTR to get you the stock head.


Thank you a lot. This beast will rise from the dead and kick some butt


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Devils Den TX wrote:
Yes sir thank you in advance !


dune_gobblin wrote:
Thank you a lot. This beast will rise from the dead and kick some butt


No problem. If I can help someone in the Buggy community, I'll try to do it. It'd be nice to see more GTR's up and going. I'll get to it as soon as I can get the time. May be a couple of weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:00 am 
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I didn't know these GTR 250s had a 4 valve head :shock:

I'm about to start some serious googling, but is there any chance that this head (and/or cylinder) can be cobbled into a cn250? [-o<


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:15 am 
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bpsims wrote:
I didn't know these GTR 250s had a 4 valve head :shock:

I'm about to start some serious googling, but is there any chance that this head (and/or cylinder) can be cobbled into a cn250? [-o<



Been there - post425697.html?hilit=Sym250%20vs%20cn250#p425697

I need to update pic links but GTR head is massive compared to the CN250 head.

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* 2014 Kandi 110GKG-2 - Uni, OML Coil, Modded exhaust and it SCREAMS


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:46 am 
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I think we traced the SYM back to Yamaha roots verses the Honda based CN and CF.

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:35 pm 
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That's too bad. The cn250 head isn't great for cylinder filling.

The graph below illustrates what happens when the intake valve opens:

Image

This is the MAP signal from my microsquirt. The small up and downs are airflow resonance as it bounces around waiting for the intake valve to open.

When the valve opens, you can see the big dip in pressure before it starts to fill and the valve closes again. This dip is much greater compared to a more efficient head where the low pressure doesn't go much below ambient.

This image doesn't show it, but the valve is closing about half way between the lowest point and the next high point. The cylinder never sees ambient pressure - it's always in a state of vacuum because of the inefficient valve size.


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:08 pm 
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so i thought i would put a few photos up off the internal engine. a bit messy in there. but everything looks good beside a few bearing that are not to expensive to replace :D


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:34 am 
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If I can get done early enough today, I'll see if I can find the time to pull the head off my GTR tonight or tomorrow night. Just been real busy lately.
Since you have the motor off of the buggy, could you take a few pics of the rear brake caliper and rotor set up? My GTR being a 300 has the calipers and rotors at each of the rear hubs. I still have the center rotor like the GTR 250, but it's not used. In the future I'd like to swap over to using the center rotor like the GTR 250 since it is impossible to find new rear hubs that mount the rotors for the GTR 300.

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:08 pm 
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that would be awesome. i should get all my parts next week so she will be ready to go.

here are the photos. there is a bracket under the engine that it will mount to. hopefully this helps. let me know if you need more info. it will still be apart for a week


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:01 am 
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dune_gobblin wrote:
that would be awesome. i should get all my parts next week so she will be ready to go.

here are the photos. there is a bracket under the engine that it will mount to. hopefully this helps. let me know if you need more info. it will still be apart for a week



Thanks for the pics. It looks like I have the bracket to mount the caliper, but I'll also need to to get a new bolts, parking brake cable, and brake line like I thought. When my hubs go, that's the direction I'll be taking.

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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:23 am 
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i am going to take some measurements of the caliper ans mounting points. i am looking to upgrade in the future. when i get them ill pass them along


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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:29 pm 
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I have what you need hehe.


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2015 Hammerhead GTS 250 SOLD
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 Post subject: Re: Carter 250 nightmare
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:01 pm 
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EVILWS6 wrote:
I have what you need hehe.


wow comparing, mine looks salvageable. LMAO.


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