Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:39 pm Posts: 1694 Location: Dallas TX
turbotexas wrote:
Fair Deal??? Not even close... If I had been able to ride and enjoy this vehicle instead of putting WEEKS into fixing it, then yes it would have been a good deal.
I wouldn't even wait for another swingarm. I'd tell SCAM, I mean SAM at XXX that you want a refund (minus shipping of course). Give him a dead-line....say 10 days from now.
tI read ALL of their reviews on e-bay and most complaints were shipping problems... and i am in the shipping business, so I knew both sides of the story... shippers don't take near as good a care for their frieght as you would like to believe, so I wrote all that off. Never saw anything about bad product...
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:39 pm Posts: 1694 Location: Dallas TX
turbotexas wrote:
Never saw anything about bad product...
Well I wouldn't let XXX get away with this. They know that kart has major problems. They don't care about customer satisfaction, they just want to get the money, make it thru the 30 day warranty and be done with the customer. Ethically, they should have suspended sales of this kart, worked with the manufacturer, and fixed the defect before before resuming sales. That would have been the right thing to do.
Now I personally wouldn't be happy with anything less than a refund. XXX sold it and didn't back it. Basically in my opinion they ripped you off. I would go on the offensive and hit em where it hurts, their reputation, business and internet sales. Seriously if you hit the right sites, tell the truth, provides names, dates, document with pictures, etc....and just spread the word, you can put an amazing amount of pressure on XXX.
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:51 pm Posts: 334 Location: mohave valley arizona
wow what a differance between dealers, i purcased a sunl 90 atv for our 6 year old grandson in dec. for christmas, last tuesday the chain kept coming off, futher inspection i notice the frame broke at the gusset for the swing arm, so i welded and added a brace to it , so the kid could at least ride his atv. wensday i called the dealer ,raceway atv in new york , told them the frame broke and i had to weld it ,we had the atv over 3 months now, tell you what they said , put it on a shipping pallet asked what day would be convenient for us to have the shipping company to pick it up, and as soon as they received the atv they're ship out a new one. i really didn't expect that. they faxed me a bill of lading for the shipping company and i notice its going to be shipped back to sunl dallas texas. this 90cc atv cost was $660 which included shipping, they're paying for the return and the shipping of the new quad,
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:39 pm Posts: 1694 Location: Dallas TX
the9fan wrote:
Rick, Sounds like an XXX-cellent suggestion!
There are ways to deal with scumbag dealers. My recommendations are just a start.....these tactics probably wouldn't work on someone like SeatoSky who just disappears and opens up a new website (as far as getting a resolution or refund, but they will help prevent others from doing business with S2S), but they will work with most of the other dealers who do business via the net. Put the word out on XXX and every time someone does a web search on XXX-motorsports, the words "fraud", "don't buy", "defective", and "ripoff" will pop up in the results. Let the FTC, CPSC, and BBB know that XXX is selling a defective and dangerous product using fraudulent advertising. And if that doesn't work....take it a step further back to the manufacturer. Shut down their sales in the U.S. Watch EBAY and everytime someone bids on one of these "Challenger" karts, email the bidder, etc, etc........shut em down until they fix the defects.
Sam This has gone on long enough. I do no longer wish to debate with you the difficulties I am having with this buggy. Once again today I spent most of thje day packing up neccisary items for my "maiden" trip. I have been planning on taking my buggy on the road with me so I can ride in the Times I have waiting for loads. I thought The buggy was ready, but after several hours of riding, once again I am having too repair the reaar swing arm. Once again proving the FACTORY has designed this piece poorly. From several photo's i have collected since i first became interested in this challenger, I can see the SLIGHT improvements made and by your own photo you sent me it is clear this is not the only challenger to have this problem. Your factory needs to stand behind thier work and design or they will surely fail in the ggrowing market. i have been presented with bothersome options to solve this problem, all of which seem tto me to be unneccasary. Hopefuly you and your factory can see the potential problems that will arise for all of us by not sending me a new swing arm assembly. I don't have time to do all this extra work, the welding or the consumer reporting. Your Help in resolving this matter is greatly appreciated. I feel I have been MORE THAN PATIENT... David Mills
>From: service@xxx-motorsports.com >To: David Mills <turbotexas@hotmail.com> >Subject: RE: Invoice from XXX Motor Sports >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:26:24 -0800 > >Dear Customer, > If this product was giving us more trouble than profit, we >wouldn't even >been selling it for this long. The product obviously needs >improvements in >terms of quality control and performance because this Chinese Buggy >Industry >has just started, but we make improvements as the time goes. We're >all >growing >with it. We warranty whatever we could for customers as long as the >factory >warranties the parts for us, even though sometimes it was out of >warranty >already. We don't go by the "30" day warranty as advertised all the >time >because we know sometimes parts are hard to get and by the time the >parts come >in the customer could be out of warranty already. The reason we >cannot cover >this frame for you is simply because that we had to pay for it too. >The >factory would not warranty it for us. That's it. > Like i said earlier, we can wait until the other frame come in >then offer >you a big discount. That's what we are very willing to do for you >right now. We still appreciate your business very much. Please >don't >get us wrong. Thank >you. > >Best Regards, > >sam, >xxx-motorsports > > > > >Quoting David Mills <turbotexas@hotmail.com>: > >>Yes I wanted a quote, not an invoice. I believed at the time thiis >>might have been something I was to blame for, but upon further >>investigation, I discovered that this was a design flaw that had >>been >>improperly addressed by the factory. You and the factory knew of >>this >>defiecency and continued to sell/ship product out that had been >>shown >>to be defective. That was a poor decision made by you. I personally >>would not have taken the risk of such a move, and then expect your >>customers to PAY for your desicion. Am I willing to spend more >>money >>on this issue? No I do not wiish to invest money into something >>that >>is not my fault. If you and your factory choose not to send me a >>replacement swing arm assembly that is your business decision. I am >>resourceful enough to get by. s far as other customers, who don't >>have the biility to rebuild there own buggy, I am sure they will >>chose another route. >>Thank You, >>David Mills >> >> >>>From: service@xxx-motorsports.com >>>To: David Mills <turbotexas@hotmail.com> >>>Subject: RE: Invoice from XXX Motor Sports >>>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:15:31 -0800 >>> >>>Dear Customer, >>> In the email that you wrote us on the 27th of January you >>>wrote: >>>I am wanting a quote on a replacement for this engine mounting >>>frame. I also >>>need a quote on the fuel gauge insert in the tank. >>> >>> You requested a quote, and that is why we gave you a quote. >>>For fuel >>>float/ sensor, we're giving it to you for free under warranty. >>>However, as >>>stated in our terms and agreement, the frame and body are not >>>covered unless >>>it's due to shipping damage. >>> >>> Another option would be after the upper frame came in, we'll >>>send you the >>>invoice again, and we will give you a big fat discount. Thank >>>you. >>> >>>Best Regards, >>> >>>sam, >>>xxx-motorsports >>> >>> >>> >>>Quoting David Mills <turbotexas@hotmail.com>: >>> >>>>You Guys have the nerve to send me an invoice for $315.00 dollars >>>>for >>>>something the factory has failed to correct since there is >>>>obvious >>>>issues known by them from earlier models... I have collected >>>>several >>>>photos showing the stages of this problem, as seen by the >>>>development >>>>of new braces from the same problem areas I had. >>>>Did i invoice you for the welding machine I had to buy, for the >>>>metal >>>>and rods, helmet, gloves, cutting saw, torch, clamps and on and >>>>on? >>>>Did I invoice you for the time i spent fixing this product? I >>>>made >>>>$150,000.00 dollars last year, you can't afford to pay my wages. >>>>I expected good customer service from a new upstart company, I >>>>even >>>>accepted the fact that there might be slight problems with this >>>>new >>>>product. I foolishly trusted in your ability to provide what is >>>>neccesary to flourish in this market. >>>>Look at how many times my review has been viewed, as of 11:30 pm >>>>central time 4,364 times!!! >>>> >>>>http://www.buggynews.com/viewforum.php?f=24&sid=be20c150bf4510f893628c8f93c5d087 >>>> >>>>Hi Turbo Texas, >>>> >>>>I have imported 10 Challenger 250s into the New Zealand and >>>>inital >>>>feedback hasn't been great. >>>> >>>>I wonder if you could take a look at the feedback and comment for >>>>me. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Rob >>>> >>>>Thanks David, >>>> >>>>Appreciate the reply. I'm not very mechanically inclined I just >>>>purchased them because we wanted a couple for corporate events >>>>and >>>>now the guy who was going to sell most of them has backed out on >>>>seeing them. >>>> >>>>This is what he has to say..... >>>> >>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>"Hi Mate, >>>> >>>>Sorry about the call last night, I had 4 people out at my place >>>>to >>>>have a go and honestly, none of us could get more than 2 laps out >>>>of >>>>it before either the chain would come off or break at the joiner >>>>link >>>>or be so sore from driving it that we'd have to stop, it really >>>>is >>>>that bad. I lasted 1 gentle lap and got out. >>>>The intake tube came away from the airbox as I thought it would >>>>so >>>>thats a definite thing to repair. >>>>The rear axle is flexing as soon as you apply the power making >>>>the >>>>chain go lose, because the sprockets are so far out of alignment >>>>the >>>>chain comes off real easy. >>>>The axle flexes because they have put the drive sprocket >>>>basically in >>>>the middle of the axle so it has no support (sprocket should be >>>>mounted near the axle bearing). >>>> >>>>Even if all the things I have found so far were to be fixed they >>>>are >>>>undrivable with the suspension the way it it, it physicly hurts >>>>over >>>>mild bumps etc. >>>>A child going slow in it on smooth ground might be ok but the >>>>target >>>>buyer is never going to be a 7-12 year old. >>>> >>>>We put bald tyres on it and wet the track and it still wanted to >>>>roll >>>>over with very little effort, it really is just a bad design. >>>> >>>>I could not with any confidence whatsoever sell these. >>>>If you let someone demo one there is no way they would buy one. >>>>If they purchased one through trademe they'd be on the ph within >>>>an >>>>hour of driving it wanting a refund I'm sure. >>>>Please don't think I'm blowing it out of proportion, I really >>>>wish >>>>you'd come out and had a drive. >>>>Within 10 minutes all of us had had enough of it and we drove one >>>>of >>>>mine and a motorbike I have out their for an hour or so. >>>> >>>>I have video footage showing the chain comming off and/or >>>>breaking >>>>within 20 meters of taking off and thats after we reset the chain >>>>tension correctly!! >>>> >>>>I really don't know what you can do with them without having >>>>unhappy >>>>customers all over the place." >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>David, >>>> >>>>What do you think of his comments and any advice on what we >>>>should do >>>>to move forward? >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Rob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: "David Mills" <turbotexas@hotmail.com> >>>>To: ukrob@hotmail.com >>>>Subject: RE: Challenger 250 >>>>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:36:35 -0600 >>>> >>>> >>>>Hey Rob wouldn't mind, my biggest complaint was the setup on the >>>>rear >>>>where I had to spend to much time rewelding. they did not >>>>reinforse >>>>the assembbly where the two pieces come together. i have seen >>>>150cc >>>>that had this area built up stronger. >>>>When I orddered the challenger it had everything i wanted. small >>>>for >>>>easy toting,easy trailering. same size as a quad, wheel base etc. >>>>could fit in back of Pick up truck, a reverse and 250cc >>>>Now that i have it and spend several weeks of daily working on >>>>this >>>>buggy while on vacation. (6weeks) >>>>The cockpit needs to be bigger, just a little more room.(I am >>>>5'10" >>>>and 215 pounds) >>>>there is no parking brake , it's on the rear caliper but not set >>>>up >>>>completly... they need adjustable shocks. >>>>I was unaware of Buggynews.com when I ordered, and wish I had >>>>been >>>>better informed. If you need any more help or input let me know. >>>>I suggest welding reinforcement in rear before selling to avoid >>>>customer problems. >>>>Glad to help/hope I helped, >>>>David >>>> From: "Rob Waddell" <ukrob@hotmail.com> >>>>To: turbotexas@hotmail.com >>>>Subject: Challenger 250 >>>>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:42:03 +0000 >>>> >>>>Hi Turbo Texas, >>>> >>>>I have imported 10 Challenger 250s into the New Zealand and >>>>inital >>>>feedback hasn't been great. >>>> >>>>I wonder if you could take a look at the feedback and comment for >>>>me. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Rob >>>> >>>> >>>>From: im4seven >>>>To: turbotexas >>>>Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:09 pm >>>>Subject: challanger >>>>The Challanger has been on my short list for a while now. I see >>>>you >>>>and others have been having problems with the swing arm. Other >>>>than >>>>that how's it doing? The price seems right for what you get. What >>>>I'm >>>>wondering is it I re-inforced it BEFORE I ride, how is the rest >>>>of >>>>the kart going to hold up? I caught the part about the ignition >>>>switch. Sounds like we are about the same size, though I've got >>>>20 >>>>lbls or so on ya! I beat the snot out of these things in the >>>>woods >>>>and the frame/front suspension is usually the first thing to go! >>>>I >>>>would probably get it from somebody other than XXX. Have you >>>>found >>>>any good outlets for parts? >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Jim >>>> >>>>This is the email I am getting from people from all over the >>>>world >>>>that are intereested in your product, but as you can see you have >>>>lost sales by ignoring the simple philosophy of making the >>>>customer >>>>happy!!! I am truly sorry but i refuse tto pay for something that >>>>should have been done right the first time. I really am not in >>>>the >>>>mood to pay for something i am going to have to drag out the >>>>welder >>>>for again to reinforse before I reinstall. I don't hear of any >>>>auto >>>>dealers charging for recall repairs/replacements. What do you >>>>tell >>>>your customers who have no mechanical inclination??? >>>> >>>>David Mills >>>>1890 Church Rd. >>>>Seguin,TX 78155 >>>> >>>>>From: XXX Motor Sports <service@xxx-motorsports.com> >>>>>Reply-To: XXX Motor Sports <service@xxx-motorsports.com> >>>>>To: turbotexas@hotmail.com >>>>>Subject: Invoice from XXX Motor Sports >>>>>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:39:06 -0800 (PST) >>>>> >>>>>Dear David Mills : >>>>> >>>>>Your invoice is attached. Please send a cashiers check or money >>>>>order for >>$315.00<< to the following warehouse address: >>>>> >>>>> XXX Motor Sports >>>>> Service Department >>>>> 3100 E. Cedar Street Ste. #2 >>>>> Ontario, CA 91761 >>>>> >>>>>Thank you, >>>>> >>>>>Service Department >>>>>XXX Motor Sports >>>>>---------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>>To view the attached file, you must have Acrobat(R) Reader(R) >>>>>installed. You can download Acrobat(R) Reader(R) from the >>>>>Adobe(R) >>>>>Web site: >>>>> >>>>>http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html >>>>> >>>>>***************************************************************** >>>>>You are viewing a text version of this message because your >>>>>e-mail >>>>>reader doesn't support HTML. We recommend using e-mail software >>>>>that supports HTML or enabling this feature if it's turned off. >>>>>***************************************************************** >>>> >>>> >>>>><< Inv_P1043_from_XXX_Motor_Sp.pdf >> >>>> >>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >>>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - >>it's >>FREE! >>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ >> >> > > >
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2006_0328swingarm0005.JPG [ 67.5 KiB | Viewed 20 times ]
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2006_0328swingarm0003.JPG [ 114.1 KiB | Viewed 19 times ]
2006_0328swingarm0002.JPG [ 107.84 KiB | Viewed 23 times ]
2006_0328swingarm0001.JPG [ 113.23 KiB | Viewed 20 times ]
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:39 pm Posts: 1694 Location: Dallas TX
turbotexas wrote:
We require the original part be returned to us with a copy of the invoice and a brief statement indicating the defective nature of the merchandise. Sam XXX
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